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Staying calm under fire.

Discussion in 'Game Mods' started by Jos, Dec 31, 2014.

  1. Jos

    Jos Registered

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    Ok, here's an idea I had ages ago i'd like to toss around with you guys (and I know bobcules will have some good comments ;))

    It's quite simple: when a soldier/alien is fired at, he looses 'x' amount of morale. Simple as that.

    Now, i was thinking 'x' would, fairly obviously, be a very small amount. With the current morale system - probably 2 or something like that. This mechanic would represent the soldiers panicking under heavy fire. A higher bravery would reduce 'x' of course, so braver soldiers would be less inclined to panic. Being out of the LOS of the critter firing the weapon would also greatly reduce 'x'.
    Rapid firing weapons like the machine gun would suddenly take on a new lease of life as 'terror weapons'.

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. bobucles

    bobucles Registered

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    Do we need yet another reason to use dual wielded full auto machine guns all day every day? Besides, who's to tell who's shooting at who? When a hail of bullets goes down a corridor, anyone in the corridor is a viable target.
     
  3. Jos

    Jos Registered

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    I for one never dual-wield machine guns, and honestly find machine guns only really useful as a 'training' weapon to 'train' soldiers accuracy. They're effective in the early game for sure, but I find their combat effectiveness diminishes quickly in the face of shields and there's far too little ammo to use them much for real killing.

    I've not been in many gunfights personally but I would imagine you know when you're being shot at.
     
  4. Grimagor

    Grimagor Registered

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    There are another option. In Xenonauts for example, when a unit are under heavy fire (usually a machine gun full auto or sometime a rifle autoshot) they can be supressed. A supressed unit lose all his/her TU (so, they can't make any reaction shoot) and lose half of the TU of the next turn.
    This could be a posibility, heavy fire can supress an agent or any inteligent being (those who have morale), the less bravery the more easy to supress.
     
  5. bobucles

    bobucles Registered

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    Could you please tell me who is getting shot at in this image? Suppression isn't going to work well because the environment is just too damn fragile. All it takes is one or two shots to blow away an agent's cover so why stay hunkered down? You're better off running for your life.

    The cloaking device made a brave attempt to nerf the accuracy of agents who shoot at them. Anyone who shoots at a cloaked target suffers a deliberately reduced aim, making super agents act like rookies. However you can exploit around this by shooting directly behind the cloaked unit, scoring the hit.

    Apoc already has a form of suppression behavior. Remember those smiley faces where you always click the angry one every single time? That is the suppression mechanic in Apoc. Agents who are being attacked will automatically duck behind cover and avoid fire. It works okay-ish, but hiding from enemies just can't compare with going full out on offense.
     
  6. The Reaver of Darkness

    The Reaver of Darkness Registered

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    A prime example of X-Com: Apocalypse accuracy.
     
  7. bobucles

    bobucles Registered

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    A pile of rookies using dual wielded autoshot is lacking on accuracy? Alert the press! We have a crisis on our hands.

    A prone rookie, sporting 22 accuracy, using the laser sniper has better accuracy than a prone agent with 91 accuracy using aimed shots with the toxigun. However the latter accuracy is exactly the same if the agent uses running autoshot with the Toxigun, so why bother with the sniper? You lose over 10x the fire rate and damage output for it.
     
  8. Solarius Scorch

    Solarius Scorch Call to Power modder Global Moderator

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    It's been more or less agreed upon that the fire modes' mechanics in Apoc is not really that good, and this is another reason why.

    As for the whole suppression/morale thing, I guess it would require a new system of environmental threat reaction - energy beams zapping by could trigger this mechanism, but the same can be said on nearby explosions, falling debris and howling megaspawns. It's an interesting idea, but would be fairly complex.
     
  9. bobucles

    bobucles Registered

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    Isn't that what the smiley face settings are for? Troops that take fire will run and duck for cover.

    Of course, it's probably simpler to unload all your ammo rather than utilize Apoc's "strafe as slow as possible" cover mechanism.
     
  10. Solarius Scorch

    Solarius Scorch Call to Power modder Global Moderator

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    I think the point is to allow soldiers to effectively change this setting regardless of the player's wishes.
    A rough idea, but, perhaps it would be fun to make the higher aggressiveness only available to soldiers with sufficient Bravery? For example, soldiers with Bravery 25 or less can only be in Cautious mode, those with Bravery 26-50 have access to Cautious and Normal, and those at 51+ can be Aggressive too. Not sure if it's good, but at least it would make all modes actually used in the game.

    Yep, some epic rolls and jumps would be good. :q (Agility-dependant?)
     
  11. Jos

    Jos Registered

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    No no, it was Bobcules who made it complex. it's very simple: when a soldier is shot at they loose x points of morale. Couldn't be simpler.

    This is quite a cool idea - and could very easily be combined with my above idea. I would remove player choice, though, and have the game automatically set the soldier to cautious when their morale drops below 25, normal when below 50 and otherwise the player can select what they want.
    This would synergise with the normal morale effects.

    Good thinking.
     
  12. Solarius Scorch

    Solarius Scorch Call to Power modder Global Moderator

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    If I was hit with an alien beam and nothing bad happened, I'm pretty sure my morale would be boosted rather than decreased. :)

    Thanks, but I would like to make a note that I enjoy using the three modes, it adds to my tactical choices. It is often said that staying at aggressive is always best, but I do change the modes anyway. I would prefer to remain being able to, as it gives me more stuff to do helps the immersion.
     
  13. The Reaver of Darkness

    The Reaver of Darkness Registered

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    This is completely false. An agent with 22 accuracy in the prone firing aimed shots with a laser sniper rifle has LESS accuracy than an agent with 91 accuracy flying and firing auto shots with the toxigun. Not just a little less, mind you, but MUCH less. The accuracy system is so terrible in Apocalypse that the agent's accuracy is almost the only factor. The difference between aimed shots and auto shots matters within a small range of agent accuracy values. Any less on the agent, and aimed shots miss at point-blank range. Any more on the agent and auto shots hit regularly at max range.


    To the original topic: I like the idea of making units become agitated under fire, but I'd suggest some changes:

    1.) Agent's armor vs. the power of the weapon should matter. If I were wearing Megapol armor, I just wouldn't be that afraid of someone shooting a Lawpistol or Marsec Machinegun at me. Now if it were a Devastator Cannon bearing down at me, I'd probably want to stay in hiding. But if I were wearing Marsec armor, I'd be a bit more afraid of the bullets. Also, the armor seems to wear out after a few hits. If my Megapol armor had sustained 5-8 bullet hits already and I was starting to take flesh damage per hit, I'd start to get worried pretty quick!

    2.) Instead of lowering morale (an effect which lingers), howabout simply increasing their susceptibility to both panic and safety movements? If they have a low morale already, it could trigger them to panic, but if their morale is high they might simply decide to get behind cover. This might be especially noticeable on the green setting--they'll get aggressive against weapons that won't easily hurt them but stay in cover when being shot at with weapons that can hurt them more easily.
     

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